Chloe and Jordan discuss Chloe’s story of medical transition and subsequent detransition.
“the idea that the only pathway to this was through, you know, radical hormonal and physiological transformation, it’s just, it’s preposterous”
Jordan Peterson on medical gender transition
Jordan explains in clear terms what underlying factors could have influenced Chloe as she entered adolescence. The early onset of puberty, societal expectations, broad shoulders, creativity and autism – a lot of ground is covered. Jordan provides insight and reassurance.
Social media (in Chloe’s case it was Instagram) and the search for community belonging played their part.
“I didn’t particularly like other girls and I didn’t really like the fact that I was a girl either and especially as I got older I I really wanted a way out and when I started seeing this content it taught me that there was and that I didn’t have to be a woman.”
Chloe Cole on what led her to consider gender transition
“Yeah, so right around the age of 12 I decided that I wasn’t actually a girl after some period of time questioning my sexuality and then eventually my gender identity. I switched between labels before I finally settled on you know I think I’m just actually a boy and I started cutting my hair shorter gradually wearing more boys clothing and I came out to my older sister some friends that I was closer to and at school and some people online as well and then after a few months I decided that I wanted to tell my parents about this and also start the path of medical transition and so I wrote a letter explaining to them that I wanted to be their son and that I wanted them to refer to me by a new name and they were they were Beyond shocked they I don’t really know how as a parent you could expect to hear something like this and I knew I knew at the time even that it would be kind of a it would be it would be pretty pretty shocking to them and so I wanted to allow them some time to think it over and think of their response I was also scared of how they would react so that was why I wrote a letter instead of bringing it up to them face to face.”
Chloe Cole on how she told her parents
Chloe’s parents helped her find a therapist but he did not explore why Chloe felt the way she did:
“I think he was just a generic pediatric therapist and the first one I saw actually wasn’t very thorough. He didn’t even give me diagnosis, I don’t think. He didn’t really go into the reasons why I was feeling this way. He was just kind of like “Oh so you’re boy, okay.” and then he just never really got went into anything.”
Chloe Cole on her first therapist
Understandably, Jordan Peterson favours a different approach:
“So if you came to see me as a therapist, the first thing I would do is kind of what I’m doing in this interview today, is I try to figure out what exactly is going on with you. And you see that’s different than affirming your identity, right; because you could come to me as a client and say “Well, I think I’m a boy.” and the proper response for me as a therapist is “Okay, well you know you’ve said that and I want to find out why that is.” But I’m not going to take that as gospel I’m going to find out, because we’re trying to solve a complicated problem here which is why you’re suffering and it isn’t exactly obvious, why, in fact, it’s not obvious at all and it’s not up to me as a therapist to LEAP to a conclusion.”
Jordan Peterson
Jordan makes it clear that exploratory therapy is a long and deep process. He also rails against the recent developments in some jurisdictions where such exploratory therapy has been banned so that therapists have no choice but to affirm an incongruent gender identity. Something Jordan describes as “the end of psychotherapy”.
Chloe states that her mental health problems were not explored at all throughout the course of her transition.
Chloe’s parents were supportive and sceptical, but they were told that medical transition was the only treatment for gender dysphoria. When they pushed the medics on regret rates, they were told they were one or two percent. Furthermore, her parents were told that Chloe would be at risk of suicide were she to be prevented from having the treatment.
Of course, we now know that these levers used on Chloe’s parents are all lies.
Jordan Peterson recognises this and lays it out clearly and passionately.
Chloe’s first endocrinologist refused to treat, but a subsequent one prescribed the puberty blockers and testosterone that started to masculinize her appearance.
The middle segment of the video deals with Chloe’s sexuality and the problems created in this realm by the medical treatment she was receiving. One gets the sense that Chloe did not get the chance to have the normal rites of passage an unmedicated teenager would experience.
Chloe talks about the effects of testosterone – the initial ‘honeymoon period’ followed after about a year and a half by side effects including bladder problems and urinary tract infections.
Her move to using a breast binder, and then subsequently to get a bilateral mastectomy were accelerated by a sexual assault in class.
Jordan Peterson laments the lack of exploratory therapy and declares the medical negligence of those aiding and abetting Chloe’s treatment to have crossed the line into criminality.
Chloe describes attending a ‘Top Surgery Class’ attended by at least a dozen other families which was “just propaganda”.
Her mastectomy and its aftermath is described in some detail.
A couple of months after Chloe’s mastectomy she started to reconsider her medical transition, a process that took almost a year.
Learning about parenting and child development in a psychology class helped her learn more about herself.
Chloe and Jordan discuss the factors that contributed to Chloe’s detransition.
Chloe has announced that she is suing the professionals that allowed her to medically transition.
They discuss the motivation for this legal action.
Chloe’s first complaint is the consent process and that she could not give informed consent – particularly given the limited information provided and her age at the time.
Secondly, she describes the ongoing side-effects and loss of sexual function that resulted from her medical treatment.
“How was I supposed to know?” – “None of this should have been allowed to happen.”
